User talk:Choliamb

Upload marked for deletion

Hey, you recently marked my upload for speedy deletion here. However, the source I took it from, here, is marked "Creative Commons 4.0 Attribution alone" on the footer of every page. Perhaps I have misunderstood the copyright license, but I thought that allowed me to reproduce the image here. 𝕱𝖎𝖈𝖆𝖎𝖆 (talk) 03:25, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi Ficaia. Thanks for contacting me. It's easy to see why you're confused by these seemingly contradictory licenses. Here's the situation:

• The painting was originally created for and published by the American School of Classical Studies at Athens (ASCSA). It was published in the journal Hesperia in 1955, and that journal article is still under copyright. The ASCSA has made the image available to the public as part of its Digital Archive, but it retains the copyright, as stated on the "Rights and Permissions" page of the ASCSA web site.
• Although it retains the copyright, the ASCSA has no objection to the use of the image for non-commercial and educational purposes, under the Fair Use doctrine of US copyright law, and it was under those provisions that David Sider, the author of the article in which you found the image, used it. (As the link in his figure caption indicates, he took the image directly from the ASCSA Digital Archive.) There is nothing wrong or unethical about that: he was free to use the image in an academic article, as is anyone else, including you and me. But the fact that he was allowed to reproduce the image under the Fair Use doctrine does not transfer the copyright on that image to him or to the publisher of his article. He does hold the copyright on the text of his article, which is his own work, but not to any illustrations, like this one, which are not his own work. So when the publisher or the author marked his article with a CC 4.0 license, what they were licensing is the text of the article. They were not licensing the image, which is not theirs to license. In that respect the CC 4.0 label is misleading. It's a confusing situation, but it's normal in archaeological and art historical publications, where the author of an article is very frequently not the creator of the illustrations.
• What all this means is that you are free to use the image if you want to in personal, educational, or non-commercial work of your own, just like anyone else. The ASCSA doesn't object to that; in fact, they encourage it. But unfortunately you cannot post it to the Commons under a CC 4.0 license, because the ASCSA still holds the copyright, and the Commons only hosts images that are free of all copyright restrictions (see Commons:Licensing). It explicitly does not allow images that are reproduced under the Fair Use doctrine (see Commons:Fair Use).

It's a great image, especially the full-color version, and a great little vase. (I've seen it in person.) Feel free to use it elsewhere for any non-commercial purpose. But please don't upload it to the Commons. Cheers, Choliamb (talk) 11:46, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for explaining that. It's a shame we can't keep it, but I guess we'll just have to hope someone takes their own photo of the vase and uploads it as their own work. 𝕱𝖎𝖈𝖆𝖎𝖆 (talk) 11:51, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

BTW, I think I've made the same mistake here, here and here. So they'll probably have to go too, alas. 𝕱𝖎𝖈𝖆𝖎𝖆 (talk) 12:32, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

Ficaia: Ah, yes, I'm afraid so. Since those specific photographs are owned and copyrighted by the Greek Ephorate of Antiquities and the Boston Museum of Fine Arts, they cannot be hosted by the Commons either. They're all fairly well-known vases, however, and when I have a chance, I'll look around and see if I can find any copyright-free images available online. If nothing else, I will visit the Greek galleries on my next trip to the MFA in Boston (I live in Massachusetts) and see if I can get photos of the two vases in their collection. I don't know whether they are on display, or whether they will produce good photos if they are, since reflections are often a problem with objects enclosed in glass cases. But I'll try, and if I'm successful I'll upload the images as replacements for yours. But in the meantime, yes, I'm afraid they will have to be flagged for deletion. Cheers, Choliamb (talk) 13:59, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

Autopatrol given

Hello. I just wanted to let you know that I have granted autopatrol rights to your account; the reason for this is that I believe you are sufficiently trustworthy and experienced to have your contributions automatically marked as "reviewed". This has no effect on your editing, it is simply intended to make it easier for users that are monitoring Recent changes or Recent uploads to find unproductive edits amidst the productive ones like yours. In addition, the Flickr upload feature and an increased number of batch-uploads in UploadWizard, uploading of freely licensed MP3 files, overwriting files uploaded by others and an increased limit for page renames per minute are now available to you. Thank you. —‍Mdaniels5757 (talk • contribs) 00:13, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! Choliamb (talk) 01:17, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

Boston MFA

Hey, I don't know if you plan on visiting the Boston MFA again, but if you do perhaps you could look out for this piece to photograph. Commons doesn't have any ancient depictions of the marriage of Helen and Menelaus (as far as I can see), and it would be nice to fill that gap in our collection. 𝕱𝖎𝖈𝖆𝖎𝖆 (talk) 04:12, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

@Ficaia: I'd be happy to do it, but according to the MFA website that vase is not currently on display, so I won't be able to photograph it any time soon. Sorry. Choliamb (talk) 04:57, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

i genuinely thank you

	ankara kalesi in 1993
	i genuinely thank you because you uploaded bunch of relatively old photos of ankara castle. you had bring light to our knowledge. ----modern_primat ඞඞඞ TALK 19:08, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

@Modern primat: Thanks. I'm glad you find them useful. Cheers, Choliamb (talk) 22:54, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

The Propylaea of Athens

Hello Choliamb

On File:Propilei - Pomardi Simone - 1820.jpg, why did you remove "Category:The Propylaea in 1820". In my opinion, it's a usefull information to know the story of that building. When I think of it, it's probably because this drawing was made a few years earlier and published in 1820.

Sincerly. Io Herodotus (talk) 09:54, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

Hi Io Herodotus. I hope you don't mind that I moved your question here to my main user talk page, where I think you intended to put it, rather than on the talk page of my cheatsheet of Institution templates, where I almost overlooked it.

As for your question: yes, the explanation you suggested is precisely the reason I removed the 1820 date. Pomardi accompanied Edward Dodwell to to Greece in 1804–1806, and all of the original drawings and watercolors that formed the basis for the illustrations in Dodwell's publications and in Pomardi's own book were made during that trip. So while the date of the engraving itself is 1820, it's not quite true to describe it as a view of the Propylaea in 1820. I see you've moved it to the 1800's (i.e., 1800–1810), which is more accurate, and is what I probably should have done, rather than just removing the category. My apologies for that.

But if you want to assign it a more precise date, I think you can. The original drawings made by Dodwell and Pomardi on that trip were the subject of an exhibition at the British Museum in 2013. Looking through the book that was published in conjunction with that exhibition, I see that all of the drawings of buildings on the Athenian Acropolis were made in 1805, including one of the Propylaea from the same angle as this (much simplified) Pomardi engraving. So I think it would be mostly accurate to describe this as a view of the Propylaea in 1805 (even if Pomardi did make some changes, like the addition of the cannons at the top of the facade, when adapting it for the 1820 publication).

Personally, however, I'm not sure that these individual year categories, which usually contain only one or two images, are very helpful to users. Certainly I find them a little annoying, since when I go looking for a view of the Propylaea in the 19th century I have to keep clicking on every single subcategory, over and over, just to see what's available. And it easily leads to the separation of related files: so, for example, one copy of James Robertson's photograph of the Propylaea in 1857 (File:A ruined temple, Greece.jpg) is placed in Category:The Propylaea in the 1850s, while another version of the same photograph (File:James Robertson, The Propylae on the Acropolis, 1857, NGA 155347.jpg) is placed in Category:The Propylaea in 1857, without any way for a casual user who sees one of them to know that the other exists. It would be more useful, in my opinion, to group such images together in larger categories like "Historical views of the Propylaea" or "19th century views of the Propylaea", or "Views of the Propylaea before the Greek war of independence." Anyone who wants to know the precise year of a given image can read the description. I think this is more consistent with the way that most people use the Commons. But again, that's just my opinion, and I understand if you feel differently. I'm certainly not going to start nominating such categories for deletion.

Best wishes, Choliamb (talk) 13:01, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

Bronze head of a woman (Boston MFA 96.712)

Hi Mark,

Just wanted to let you know that I used your lovely image of a bronze head of a woman (Boston MFA 96.712) in my latest post on Substack. Feel free to check it out if you are curious how it turned out.

Thank you so much for making your photos free to use. I really appreciate it! 37.63.98.211 17:58, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for taking the time to leave a note! It's always a pleasure to hear that someone has found a photo useful. Cheers, Choliamb (talk) 13:43, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Corinth Turkish fountain of Mourat Aga 01 and 02

Hi Mark, Just wanted to let you know that I used your lovely photos of a never photographed fountain in Corinth, Greece in a voluntary project to create an interactive cultural inventory. Feel free to chech it out. Alicembasli (talk) 15:25, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

@Alicembasli: Hi Ali. Thanks for the note. The inventory looks very interesting, and I'm delighted to know that you found the photos useful. One small note: there doesn't seem to be a photo credit on the page that you linked. You may use the images free of charge for any purpose you like, but the terms of the Creative Commons license do have one restriction: you must give credit to the photographer. You can do that either by adding a short credit line (e.g., "Photos: Mark Landon - Wikimedia Commons") or by linking the thumbnail images back to the original photo pages here on the Commons, where the attribution and the license are listed. Thanks for understanding, and best of luck with the project. Cheers, Choliamb (talk) 20:11, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Hi Mark, thank you for the note. To view the page to which each photo is linked, you can click on the "Kaynak" text in the image caption when you click on the photo. Photo captions also indicate the person who took the photo and the date the photo was taken. But I also added your name and page to the references. Thank you for your understanding. Cheers. Alicembasli (talk) 20:37, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

@Alicembasli: Ah, yes, I see. I didn't look closely enough, and I had javascript turned off when I first looked at the page, so the captions didn't appear. Sorry about that, and thanks for the clarification. It's certainly not necessary to list me in the references on the main page as long as the credit appears in the caption, so feel free to remove that if you prefer. In looking through the other Corinthian entries in the inventory, I noticed that the only image you have for the fountain house above the village of Anaploga on the northwest slope of Acrocorinth (Anaploga Çeşmesi) is a YouTube video. I have a few photographs of that one too, also taken in the 1990s, if they're of any use to you. You can find them in Category:Turkish fountain house above Anaploga (Corinth). Cheers, Choliamb (talk) 21:33, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Hello again, Mark. I added these photos to the mentioned fountain entry, citing the same way. Thank you very much for sharing these wonderful photographs of these structures, whose photographs are difficult to obtain. Cheers, Cem. Alicembasli (talk) 13:50, 22 January 2024 (UTC)